>I’m having trouble intonating the 4th melody
>string using the formula for BassBottom tuning
> because it keeps being sharp. I tune it C#
> no offset (at fret 2), then intonate +2 cents
> at the 14th fret, where I intonate. And then
> it’s increasingly sharp further up the fretboard.
> This bugs the owner.

Now intonations can change over time, and I cannot see the instrument, but it sounds like the owner has a misunderstanding about how Feiten works, and the authorized shop is not able to explain it to him. (Or maybe this particular shop doesn’t quite understand the Feiten system, could that be?)

Here’s our shop’s response –

Thanks for writing.

First I want to make sure I correctly understand what you said –

You have set the 4th melody string intonation to no offset at fret two.
Then you set the 4th melody string intonation to +2 cents at fret fourteen.
Then you noticed that the string is sharp *above* fret fourteen, that is frets 15-25.
Is that correct?

If I have understood you correctly, then here’s what I think is true …

Of course the string is at least 2 cents sharp above fret fourteen, because the formula tells you to make it sharp by two cents at fret fourteen.

And in fact, the string should continue to become sharper as you move further toward the bridge. For example, fret 17 or fret 20 or fret 25 should be *more* than 2 cents sharp.

And of course, any string that is set to be sharp *halfway* up the fretboard will be even more sharper higher up the fretboard. If you had zero offset at fret fourteen, then you’d expect zero sharpness above fret fourteen. But if you’ve sharped the string at fret fourteen, then as the string length is reduced as you move higher up the fretboard toward the bridge, so it will continue to become increasingly sharp at each successive fret as you move further up the neck.

As you go *down* the fretboard from fourteen toward fret two, of course the sharpness will go away until there is no sharpness at fret two. Because that’s how we set it.

Another Illustrative Example of How Buzz Feiten Intonation Works

If you had set the offset at fret 22, for example, to +2 cents, then as you came down to fret 14, then fret 14 would be *less* than 2 cents sharp. And so if you set fret 14 to be 2 cents sharp, then of course fret 18 or 21 or some higher fret will be more sharp.

In other words, that’s exactly what we set it to do. That’s what it’s doing. And that’s how it has to work.

It will not be different on any other string, and it will be exactly the same on any other string, where there is a greater sharpness at 14 than at fret 2.

Buzz Feiten Intonation and Your Ears

However, you may *notice* it less on some other strings. For example on bass strings and strings that are lower pitched, our ear hears less. And at lower frequencies, there will be less change one fret to the next in terms of actual frequency of vibration.

On some strings where the offset is less, there will be less additional sharpness further up the fretboard. So string #3 will be less, and there should be NO sharpness on strings #2 and #1.

Precision Fret-Placement Needed for Feiten Intonation System

Each fret is in one place, the same for all the strings, on parallel fret instruments, and so one string cannot act differently than another string. Even on fanned-fret instruments, the principle is the same.

And we use computer-controlled, high-precision machinery to cut the frets, so that we have no variance on the cutting of fretslots. That is, they’re not cut by hand, and there’s no human error when they’re cut. So we can assume that the fret is in the correct place, and of course it cannot be in the correct place for string #3 and string #5 and be in the wrong place for string  #4.

String Gauges and the Buzz Feiten System

There can also be some slight differences between plain and wound strings, and between one gauge and another. These are largely the differences that the Feiten intonation improves. But the formula you have is the one given us by the Feiten folks, and the strings gauges you have are the ones we used to set up the formulas. (If Fabrizio has changed to different gauges, then that’s a new can of worms!)

So What to Do?

We are left with this –

Now, that particular string #4 is the lowest-pitched plain string.

If you ears and the owner’s ears say that string #4 is “TOO SHARP” as you go up the frets, then the two of you should TRUST YOUR EARS.

That’s how Buzz Feiten and Greg Back developed the formula. They *listened* and set the offsets to what sounds the best to their ears.

So if you think that string #4 is going TOO MUCH sharp as you go up beyond fret 14, then CHANGE THE OFFSET at fret 14 to a lower value. Do this till it sounds correct to your EARS. Test against the other strings by playing simple major triads up and down the strings, if you want to really check your ears.

That’s what Buzz Feiten did.

How to Correctly Play While Setting Intonation

Now, one last thing –

As you test the intonation and as you set the intonation, PLEASE do this by TAPPING on the string. Do NOT fret the string and pluck it. Set the intonation at fret two by tapping the string, and set the intonation at fret fourteen by tapping the string. (You can get very different results picking and tapping, and this instrument is designed to be played by tapping.)

Tap ON the fret, and turn up your amp, and tap softly to do the work.

Happy intonation!

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Several things can cause tonal changes in the lowest strings, including –

If the string saddle is far back, due to intonation, it can cause the (stiff) low strings to round the front edge of the saddle poorly, which means that the string is not lying solid on the front part of the bridge, and can (in some cases) create a subtle muddiness (because the string length is changing very slightly as the string vibrates). Rare but can occur.

The action, height, can produce muddiness occasionally. Experimenting with higher or lower action by adjusting the height of the saddle may make a difference. (Be sure to adjust truss first to get flat fretboard if it has moved; see Megatar Owner’s Guide for correct trussrod adjustment procedure. Anyone can download a free copy in the documents section of the Megatar main website.)

Your playing, your touch, can make a difference, though it’s hard to specify.

Your particular amp or effects chain can make a difference. Try others at the guitar store to see if that’s it. Try removing all effects. Most likely problem effects would include chorus, and certain kinds of reverb. ‘Helpful’ effects would include the ‘aural exciter’ type of effect. And when your EQ kills all the highs, the ear cannot track low notes well, and can in some cases be perceived as muddiness.

If you’re tuning to something other than standard notes, then you may not get the best tone because the gauges and tension may not be optimum. If using a non-standard tuning, you may have to use non-standard gauges, to change the tension, to get the best sound. Careful experiment is the only way to find out.

Of course, do realize that all tapping instruments have a different sound than a plucked bass. If you ‘pluck’ your bass with a pick right next to the bridge saddle, you are triggering the string very similar to what tapping does. And this will not have the same soft pop as a bass plucked with vigor near the fretboard.

Other brands/kinds/gauges of strings — we’ve not experimented with other types. When designing, we wanted to use the most commonly available type of string, so that players could easily find strings that would work well. For this reason it’s difficult to say how other types of strings will work, and so cannot report much about that. If using other types of strings, you are the pioneer, and so you’ll need to experiment and compare.

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(a) You can compare the prices of the two most-similar instruments.

For example, compare the TrueTapper Eclipse 12-string Megatar with the Chapman ‘Grand Stick’, and you will discover that the lower-cost Eclipse actually gives you better features and faster delivery!

Detailed comparison chart –

http://megatarcomparison.com/buy-chapman-stick-feature-chart/

(b) An alternative way to compare is to compare two instruments with the most-similar prices and see what you get with each one …

For example you could compare the Megatar MaxTapper NITRO with the Chapman ‘Grand Stick’ with active-circuit preamps, and you will discover that the NITRO gives you not just active magnetic pickup sound, but includes world-famous Bartolini active magnetic sound, plus an entire second sound system from the astounding Graph-Tech ‘acoustiphonic’ Screaming-Ghost piezo system.

Further, that the Nitro offers the usual enhancements: three method books, patented MegStrap, and the patented Buzz Feiten Intonation System so your playing sounds more ‘in tune’ than normal guitars or Stick instruments.

Further, the Dual-Sound NITRO gives you separate tone/volume knobs and selector switches so you can choose either the rich and warm magnetic sound for melody or bass, or you can choose the crisp and full-frequency sound of the Screaming Ghost piezos … or you can blend them using the on-board controls, and you can output them blended or with a true Quad output for the most powerful sound on any touchstyle instrument in the world.

Plus, you save money.

Now you know.

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He had in his possession a TrueTapper Eclipse, and his Stick, and so me made identical recordings — minimal effects, same settings — and as a further comparison he also recorded the same song on a cheap Strat-knockoff.

It’s a truism that in sound recording, your effects and amplifier chain may have a greateer effect upon your sound than the particular instrument you are using!

And so it is that in recordings, or videos you see on YouTube, it can be difficult to evaluate the ‘natural’, unprocessed sound. If the musician is really skillful with his amp and effects chain, he may create what kind of sounds like a natural sound, but really it may be highly processed.

Hearing the same song, by the same player, with the same settings, using minimal effects, allows you to compare. (Naturally, when you yourself are performing, you may wish to use your effects and amp to maximum benefit, just as other musicians do!)

If your ears are keen, you can also hear, on these unprocessed recordings, the subtle effect of the Buzz Feiten Intonation System, making the Megatar sound slightly more ‘in tune’ as the song is played.

So the benefit of this particular set of recordings is that they are, to the best of our knowledge, the only time that a one-for-one recording has been made. (Mr. Goos who made these recordings was not requested to make them, nor was he compensated in any way for the recordings. He was just interested in this very same question, and kindly allowed us to have copies, so you could hear them too.)

These three recordings allow you to compare the sound of the instruments for yourself.

Let your ears be the judge …

http://megatarcomparison.com/mobius-megatar-chapman-stick-songs/

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Electronic tuners have to have a ‘window’ of frequency that is acceptable. If the window is narrow, then it is very very difficult for the human to hit the exact spot where the light turns green.

But if the window is wide, the tuner is easier to use, but one string might actually be flat, and it’s inside the window, and the next string is sharp and it’s inside the window, and they are way the hell off against each other. Therefore, you will have better luck with any tuner that lets you see yourself getting closer to the correct spot. So this suggests a priority for tuners –

• A strobe tuner is best but they are expensive and large;
• A virtual strobe is next best (Peterson makes good ones)
• A tuner with a needle would be next best, if they’ve done a good job with it;
• A tuner with a row of lights next best; and
• A tuner with a single red/green light not very good.

Of course, if you tune carefully and often, then your ear gets better and better, and after a while you’re using the tuner, but your ear is telling you the truth.

In the end, the entire point is so that the instrument sounds good while you play it. And nothing helps like practice. Practice tuning.

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Not really. Of course, the better you tune up, the better you will sound. However, the Feiten system is installed by making small adjustments to string length at both ends of the strings. On one end, the nut (or zero fret) is moved slightly. On the other end, the string saddles are adjusted to +/- a few cents here and +/- a few cents there.

The result is kind of like the ‘stretch tuning’ commonly used on pianos to make them sound more ‘in tune’ to our ears. Pianos have used this advanced ‘stretch tuning’ system for 700 years. But guitars never had such an adjusted tuning until Buzz Feiten, a southern California studio musician, developed the system.

A guitar has to have adjustments in two dimensions. Adjustments *along* the length of the string, and adjustments *across* the strings (one string against another). It’s not a perfect system, but it sure sounds a lot sweeter than no system at all!

Because the adjustments are already done, at both ends of the strings, you can tune up any way you wish.

So tune up using any method you like — tuner, ear, harmonics, beats — and it will sound better than a normal guitar, because the string saddles have offsets, and each string is biased a little against the other strings. There is a suggestion in the Mobius Megatar Owner’s Guide for one way to tune up, but you can tune it any way you wish, and it will sound more ‘in tune’ than would a normal guitar tuned up in the same way

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However, after that he went further, and along with super-luthier Greg Back of Southern California, they developed a whole set of adjustments you make to the bridge saddles. In effect, you are intentionally make the strings precisely ‘out of tune’ by an exact amount. What exact amount? Why the exact amount that your ears need to hear because of the way ears actually work.

It took them five years, they report, to uncover by tedious experiment, the exact formula that makes human ears hear strings as being ‘in tune.’ We shouldn’t be too hard on Feiten and Back for taking five years; after all, it took piano tuners much longer to develop the ‘stretch tunings’ that are now used on pianos worldwide.

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Compare the sound of one of our instruments to the sound of a normal guitar, or some tapping instrument that doesn’t have the Buzz Feiten Intonation System. The better your ears, the more dramatically you will hear the difference.

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